INTERVIEW | 'SHIT LAWYER' ABIGAIL ROLLING, EDINBURGH FRINGE
The countdown to the world's biggest arts festival Edinburgh Festival Fringe is on and arrives next month for its 75th anniversary. Between 5 - 29 August you can enjoy a diverse selection of work from across the UK in Scotland's capital city.
Ahead of the festival, I have fantastic interviews coming up from some of the acts who will be heading there to showcase their work. Have a read of my last interview with Moj Taylor about their critically acclaimed show Make-up which is coming to the Edinburgh Fringe in August here.
Next up I will be interviewing Abigail Rolling who is using her experience in her role in the magistrates' court to create a comedy show.
So to begin with, tell us where your interest in theatre came from?
I have a very clear memory from the age of around ten of sneaking into my parents’ bedroom when the babysitter was downstairs, and switching on the black and white portable TV to discover a broadcast of BBC’s Play for Today, ‘Abigail’s Party’ starring Alison Steadman and Janine Duvitski. I was absolutely mesmerised. I loved everything about it – the set, the characters, the music.
You are a criminal solicitor from South Yorkshire. What made you use your 30 years’ experience as a criminal defence lawyer in a comedy show which will be performed at the Ed Fringe?
I qualified in 1995 and was thrown straight onto a conveyor belt of courts and cop shops. That world of windowless custody suites and dilapidated courtrooms felt just like being on the set of a Mike Leigh production. It’s a perfect source of great material and I wanted to portray this fascinating world in our TV screens. By 2018, Channel 4 had commissioned a pilot episode that was received with enthusiasm until the commissioner left and the project was sadly shelved. I threw my disappointment into stand-up and channelled those same themes into a unique blend of comedy and protest. Almost three years on I’m heading to Edinburgh with my debut hour-long show.
Topics which you touch on have often been showcased through TV documentaries or more traditional forms of media. Will this comedy show be a completely different way of discussing the topics surrounding the justice system?
The short answer is yes. Some lawyers have written excellent, serious, accessible books about the criminal justice system of late. These books are devoured by the profession and read by interested parties outside it, but may not be obvious reading material for a wider public. The shiny, silky world of Crown Court with wigs and gowns has dominated our TV dramas. Added to this, the British public probably knows more about the American legal system than our own. The Magistrates’ Court rarely gets a look in despite the fact that ninety-six per cent of all cases start and finish there, making it a rich, barely tapped stream of delightful comedy and storytelling. My stand-up show comes from that and is written for people who wouldn’t normally be interested in legal matters. I encourage the audience to think of criminal defence legal aid lawyers as nurses - at the clap clinic. You wish we didn’t exist. But if you need one, you’re glad we do.
What are some of the different topics you touch on in your piece and how did you condense them into a tight time frame which will have an impact?
I think a lot of people might be wondering why lawyers have been on strike and why they should care about a criminal justice system in crisis when they consider themselves to be law-abiding citizens who will never need it. I explore the etymology of the ‘fat cat’ lawyer myth and delve into the impact of things not being properly funded. I also expose how governments of all hues indulge in the politics of penal populism, legislating to appear tough on crime and the causes of crime, at the expense of actually making us safer.
None of that sounds obviously funny but the balance is to give enough detail to make the impact I need, without it becoming a Ted Talk, juxtaposing the darker factual stuff with tales of outrageous (true) escapades of a couple of fictional ‘clients’, through which the audience become emotionally invested. Paul Abbott famously said: “writing is rewriting”. The show is in a state of continuous refinement.
What impact do you hope to have by having your show perform at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival?
At its simplest level, I want every member of the audience to feel we’ve spent a fabulous hour of entertainment together, memorable for all the right reasons. I want them to leave the gig utterly compelled to talk to their friends about it. On a bigger level, it would be a dream to get noticed by producer-types who could bring these rich themes onto radio and/or TV and showcase to an even wider audience.
Was it challenging to use your experience in the system to create a piece of comedy around it or the opposite? Do you worry about any negative comments or discussion that could arise from your show?
All legal aid lawyers know how bad things are and we have to find another narrative to appeal to more people and further the debate so that real change can happen. I hope it’s a pick-me-up for those colleagues, but also a clarion call to everyone else.
For me, it’s wonderfully cathartic to sound off on stage and to be able to use comedy as a vehicle to convey the reality of the situation in an entertaining and thought provoking way.
As for negativity, I dunno; you can’t please all of the people all of the time. I suspect some lawyers may find it perplexing but if ‘Shit Lawyer’ gets people talking about the plight of the criminal justice system, I’m happy.
There have been huge cuts to the justice system and the arts too - do you feel as though there is a clear similarity between the two that makes it important to have more support?
No government has a finite amount of money, so of course I appreciate hard decisions have to be made. However, ephemeral concepts such as art and justice don’t come with a crude pound sign. What monetary price can you put on the edifying nature of a theatre production? Equally, how do you quantify the human need to see your abuser subjected to due process? Or your accuser exposed. Besides, cuts don’t always save money. Research by the Legal Action Group has demonstrated that every £1 spent on legal aid advice saves the State £6. Legal Aid cuts are literally making people sick. GPs report a large increase in the number of patients who would have been assisted by advice on benefits, employment, debts, housing, and criminal defence. Cuts kill. Literally. Spiritually. Emotionally.
How do you feel about performing at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival this year?
Why is this festival important for people to see and support during August?
It’s the first ‘proper’ Fringe since 2019 and we all need cheering up a bit don’t we. I appreciate that things like comedy and theatre are a luxury at the moment with the cost of living rising, so to support shows especially those by new artists means a lot. It was important to make my show Pay What You Want so that as many people as possible can see it for low or no cost.
Besides your show, are there any that you’d recommend that people go and watch during the festival?
I’m looking forward to people making some recommendations for me, but I’m hoping to see Mark Thomas, Kate Butch, and Nina Gilligan, amongst others. And based purely on the quality of their knitwear and the fact they’re from Huddersfield near me, The Lovely Boys who unfortunately I can’t see because we’re performing at the same time.
‘Shit Lawyer’ is on at Just the Tonic’s Nucleus venue, 4-28 August (except 15th) at 5.50pm. It’s a Pay What You Want show, and tickets can be guaranteed in advance for just £5 by visiting https://bit.ly/ShitLawyerEdFringe