INTERVIEW | Ash Hunter, Macbeth

Leeds Playhouse are restaging a production of Macbeth in their theatre this month. Directed by Amy Leach, the production returns to the Quarry stage following its critically acclaimed 2022 premiere. All performances of Macbeth will also feature creatively integrated audio descriptions. At the helm of this staging is Ash Hunter who played Alexander Hamilton in the West End musical in 2018/19. We spoke with Hunter to find out more about this take on Shakespeare’s timeless tragedy.

1. Hello Ash, to begin with, can you tell us a little bit about your journey into the industry?

I was at a very rough all-boys school and the only time we had any interaction with the all-girls school that was opposite was when we did a play together. So, I auditioned for the play and got the part, but, yes, basically it was all about the girls! 

I went to drama school, which I didn't like because, at the time, it didn't feel like it was built for people like me. There have been a lot of changes recently in the industry and especially in the training to make it more accessible for people from working class backgrounds, and people from ethnic minority or global majority backgrounds. I'm black and I felt at the time that something like Shakespeare was being taught to me like a foreign language; it wasn’t for me and I couldn't use my own accent. So, I left drama school, let’s say by mutual agreement.

I did an open audition for a play at the Theatre Royal Stratford East, which is a wonderful community based theatre in London. I got the lead in that, which meant I got an agent, started learning on the job and found out very quickly that the industry wasn't like the one I had being told about in drama school. There were a lot of people like me who deserved a break, who had the acumen and the skills to do all the things we were told we couldn't. I started to realise that I had a part to play in the industry.

After that, I did Antony and Cleopatra with the RSC, some TV stuff and then I got Hamilton, which was a big deal and a very great pleasure to be a part of, then Bridgerton. I mean, clearly I look good in period costume!

2. Do you remember the time or moment when you knew you wanted your career to be in theatre?

I grew up watching Denzel (Washington) do his thing. When my mum finally allowed me to watch Training Day, I was like, ‘what, we can do that?’. Then there was stuff like Top Boy and Kidulthood, which kind of spoke to people from my area of town. But the stage performance that changed everything was seeing Mark Rylance in Jerusalem. I was just like, ‘wow, you can have the freedom to do what you want and to make it really count’. 

When I first started acting, it wasn't so easy to pluck at these strings. But now I feel like I've got a bit more about me, that I'm really free on stage, I want to echo the freedom I saw in Mark Rylance, to echo that power and the dual nature of embodying a person on stage.

3. You’ve worked on some great shows in your career like Hamilton, Wuthering Heights and Grenfell: In the words of survivors. Do any of the characters you’ve portrayed align with Macbeth at all?

As Alexander Hamilton, I had to lead a cast, which is kind of a seminal experience and, like with Macbeth, people already have expectations. But also in him, there’s a similarity in their aspirations and ambition. Alexander Hamilton comes from nothing and wants it all; to be the smartest in the room, the bravest in the room. That really speaks to Macbeth and his desire for more when the witches fill his head with their prophecies. It sparks something in him. He's like, ‘I can do this’. 

The other character I think really leans into the way Macbeth thinks and acts is Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights. It speaks to the darkness that Macbeth finds and his earthy nature, the way he speaks out to the moors, speaking to the spirits, cursing the winds. My Heathcliff was an immigrant; a Jamaican. It was about an outsider shown a world he could have, but it gets taken away from him, so he ends up doing whatever he can to survive. Macbeth also has to become someone else in order to survive, but then a kind of madness overtakes him, similar to the darkness I found in Heathcliff. The love between him and Cathy is echoed in the love between Macbeth and Lady M, especially in our production. They are like two planets circling each other. They create something so brilliant that, when it breaks apart, it's all the more heartbreaking.

4. What is it like to get to grips with such a figure head in theatre like Macbeth and where do you begin with developing this complex character?

I wanted to show a layered man; a man who has this paradoxical nature, showing kindness and a kind of brilliance before he starts to crumble and be twisted into something else. The Macbeth in our production is a man who has dealt with great loss but is still brave enough to step on to the battlefield and lead his men. There's a moment at the beginning when you see how animalistic he is, when it's left to him to win the war. So, you see this man be soft and broken by loss and then suddenly you see him tearing people to pieces. 

You see the brilliance, the greatness, and the great love and then you see the descent. It’s very important to me that you see all of this man and you see all of these facets. You see him being the great king, but in the next moment you see him twisting towards the darkness. I wanted to make him human, scared of his own ambition and also desperate to find something that is missing within himself. 

I've seen some Macbeths in the past which have been one note or the relationship between him and Lady Macbeth is already broken at the beginning. But I believe it’s more interesting if you show him before his relationship breaks, being a good husband, bonding with his men. Sometimes he feels like a scared child; then in the next scene he's trying to be this great king, this great leader. By the end, he's metamorphosized into this thing, this non-human.

5. Is it daunting to play such an iconic figure..

It can never not be daunting in the sense that you understand all that has gone before and are aware of all the people who will come after to throw their hat in for this part.
So, yes, it’s daunting, but it’s also exciting. I don't think I would have been able to do this three years ago, but when I first got the script, rather than looking at it with fear, I knew I could rise to the challenge. I have the tools in my toolbox now to do this character justice; to bring my version of this character without fear of comparison to other people's versions.

It’s daunting in the best way; in the same way that it was daunting playing Alexander Hamilton and Heathcliff. But you’ve got to trust in the director who cast you and trust in the people you're on stage with. If they put their faith in me then I'm going to put my faith in me too.

6. For those who haven’t seen much Shakespeare and maybe find it difficult to get to grips with, why should they engage with it?

This production is perfect for people who usually find Shakespeare a bit tricky or feel it's not for them because, trust me, I was one of those people. Our production is cinematic. The lighting, the sound, the sword fighting, the blood, the guts, the dirt. It's so exciting. It starts with a war, a movement piece that is one of the most thrilling things I've been a part of. 

Audiences also get to see people who look like them on stage, or people who look like the people they share their world with. We have people of all shapes, sizes and colours, people with disabilities, and people using their own accents or BSL (British Sign Language). I speak like I speak; I'm not giving it the RP.

The accessibility of this production means that anyone can understand it. It’s not dumbed down in any way, it's just being delivered in such a way that it’s clear for everyone. You can always tell what characters are feeling and you can tell what their path is. Even if you don't always necessarily understand the words, you know the meaning behind them. 

Our Macbeth has actively been made for people who think Shakespeare isn't for them. That's one of the main reasons why I wanted to do it.

5. Is this production of Macbeth like others that have been on the stage, can you tell us about any differences that have been introduced into it as well?

The thing that really stands out to me is the liberation in the room, the freedom that Amy (Director Amy Leach) offers. It’s a really lovely safe working space. 

It's also a really accessible production. It’s not patronising; instead it shows how working with deaf and visually impaired performers makes the piece better for everyone. There’s a particular scene involving Macduff (actor Adam Bassett) which is so much more powerful than any other version I’ve seen because of the use of BSL. 

I was a carer for my mum before she passed, and I thought I was really locked into the needs of disability. But this is a different level – it's a beautiful, beautiful thing. It has also added to my performance and the world we're creating. It's very freeing and I’ve surprised myself in certain aspects of my performance.

What more can you ask for than to be in a room that encourages and enables you to rise?

6. What is your favourite quote from Macbeth and why?

Any line I speak! No, my favourite is:

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more. 

It speaks to the fleeting nature of our lives. I think there are some people who find it depressing and sad, but I think it's quite a beautiful thing to take a moment to realise how little time we get, and that we should cherish the right things and not sweat the small stuff. Just focus on doing your thing, loving who you want to love, doing what you want to do. Once you realise that, it's quite liberating.

7. If you could work on another Shakespeare story which you haven’t yet, which one would you choose and why?

This is the guy I wanted to play. This is the one. 

It would take a lot after this to get me to do another Shakespeare. The sheer joy of creating this piece means it’s going to be tough to match. I'm very proud of the work we're doing and I'm very lucky to have felt able to rise to the challenges of this character and the world that we're creating. 

Macbeth is the dude. He’s my guy.

Catch Ash Hunter in Macbeth at Leeds Playhouse until 23 March 2024.